Matinum

Taking Charge of Your Health


I wish there was just more compassion. No, we don’t want to make something difficult. We just want to be acknowledged My daughter was a victim and she’s being punished Hi, my name is Marissa Gold I am a parent I have two girls, ten and thirteen and I’m also a parenting expert with my own parenting company ‘Intuit Parenting’. My name is David Epstein and I’m a pediatric intensive care physician. I’m Gary Shlifer. I’m an internal medicine physician I’m Bob Sears. I’m a pediatrician. I guess my greatest passion is just to help encourage a full complete informed consent for vaccinations. I’m also Marissa. By trade am a designer. I am also an activist and a mother I’m Melissa Floyd and I would consider myself an informed consent advocate I just want to make sure this conversation can be open for people and continue to inform people and to listen to everyone to understand Why we each come to our opinion on this The first statement is: I am vaccinated So I actually wasn’t fully vaccinated interestingly I grew up with two parents that were into alternative medicine So I was not vaccinated as a child, but as I got older I vaccinated myself. Marisa: Well, I was Vaccinated as a child But my last vaccine was about 15 years ago when I returned to college and I had a severe reaction and that I became arthritic in my hands. Went to many many doctors and Nobody knew what was going on and why it was happening and just shocked like it doesn’t make sense You’re too young to have arthritis and it wasn’t until having kids and sort of digging into my own research for them That a lot of answers started coming up and I think it’s unfortunate that a lot of it is overlooked For me and I’ll continue to get vaccinated regardless of The risks because I’ve seen too many things on the other side I’ve seen kids, you know come into the ICU and die from being, uh, getting the flu I’ve always felt like the the risks are far outweighed by the benefits of getting the protection Not getting vaccinated endangers other people I Will acknowledge, of course as a pediatrician I know vaccines work. I know they give you protection They vary greatly in what that protection is. It’s not like 100% magical shield over you completely but I do acknowledge there are some vaccines like the measles vaccine and the chickenpox vaccine, that honestly if you don’t get those vaccines Yeah, you do risk catching the disease and passing it to others. It’s such a complicated topic Vaccines and you’re starting to get micro with each individual vaccine and definitely the question was Talking about the big picture and I think yeah If you get micro, probably some of these vaccines I think when you’re giving kids medication you have to get micro about it I don’t think it’s doing your kids any service to just say X things are all made the same and they’re all safe and healthy good for you that everybody’s Benefiting from it because that’s false it’s not true Well, we study them before we release them to the public we study them so we do know they’re safe That’s the thing is we know. Safe-ish. You know being an intensive us I see the worst of the worst and so seeing The other side of kids who don’t get vaccinated. I saw a kid walking in with meningococcemia Which I haven’t seen in decades. He had all four limbs cut off They had to be amputated because it was all dead tissue. You forget how bad things were before we had vaccines I didn’t step forward for that because I don’t like the assumption that If a child is unvaccinated somehow they are of risk to everyone and also knowing that Vaccinated individuals can also be caring and spreading diseases I think it’s very polarizing to separate the two as if if you’re vaccinated. You’re totally fine. You’re not risking Anybody anything unvaccinated children don’t just have diseases hanging out in their bodies waiting to unload at any moment Anybody could be spreading diseases, especially things like polio and pertussis that are not completely covered by the vaccine. I’d do anything to keep my child safe I agree I don’t have kids but when I think about it, you know The idea with vaccines is you’re protecting all of us you’re protecting the group, you know There’s this idea of herd immunity. And so I think that’s why it’s really important to talk about because This is an issue. That doesn’t just affect you It affects everyone around you because there’s people that aren’t vaccinated that are sick or have immune issues Or they’re too young to get a vaccine and they count on her immunity I think most people too like I started out Vaccinating my daughter because I believed all the same things that you said it wasn’t until she had a reaction and several reactions that I actually had to look at it differently where I I realized by continuing vaccinating for her that actually would hurt her and yet everyone wants me to do it for the population As if I’m supposed to continue to sacrifice my child for everyone else well I mean there are medical exemptions for for vaccines and if your child has a reaction and then there’s some there’s concern I think that’s valid but I think a larger population is using other Justifications to not get the vaccines, you know a number of families who look into vaccines they will decide to opt out of vaccines because they feel they are just not willing to Risk the side effects, but the side effects are the side effects are like one in a million one in two million whereas the side effects from the diseases when I see all these outbreaks and things like I’m gonna choose vaccines every time and that’s I think right there is the disservice to this conversation because It is a risk benefit analysis. And what’s unfortunate is how downplayed those risks are I only started investigating vaccines because I ended up with a kid with an autoimmune disorder So, what does that mean and instead of finding answers? I found more questions. The one in a million is not a real number And so you’re more that that is put out Is it so people think that no, well not when you’re talking about the different kind of reactions I think the number you’re referring to is anaphylactic shock that anaphylactic shock is of course extremely rare Whereas you when you look at seizures from the MMR vaccine are one in 3,000 But again this creates fear in parents. Well we worry what we worry that you get those on your side kind of downplay those so my daughter had seizures. Seizures for most people are considered kind of a big deal, you know when it happens to you that that Downplayed element of well, that’s not anaphylactic shock. It’s just a seizure. It is just a seizure but seizures can be dangerous I don’t think it’s an idea of downplay I think it comes back to what we were saying with the risk benefit analysis and I think the data is very clear that the Benefits of giving vaccines by far outweigh the risks so I don’t think it’s a question of downplaying the risks. They’re there but we also know that children were dying and now they’re not and yes, there’s side effects, but they’re not as bad as what we had before vaccines I don’t always trust my doctor’s opinion Anytime anyone whether it’s a teacher a friend something I read online my mom, you know my doctor anytime anyone tells me Oh, you should do this especially if it has to do with their health I’m going to do research and it’s I would be Careful about saying it’s that I don’t trust my doctor, but that has that trust has been developed over time And so I would say in the early years when my children were very young when they would say this is what we recommend Yes, of course there were times where I got a second opinion or did the research on my own and asked the questions and I think that as parents We have to do that well, it’s hard to trust someone who sees your child for 10 minutes twice a year in the end parents know their children best and That little office visit where your pediatrician looks at your child He does not know your child the way you know your child, so it’s really hard for whatever recommendation He’s making to be really based and individualized for your kid So if you were to come to your doctor and say hey, my child’s acting differently after this this well visit appointment Something’s wrong You want them to trust that you have an established Relationship and listen to you and hear you and understand that as a mother Just because you don’t have the dr in front of your name. It doesn’t make your opinion somehow less valuable yeah, I mean I think like anyone doctors are fallible and they don’t know everything and I think it’s very important like you’re Mentioning to have a really strong Doctor-patient relationship. I think that’s really hard in today’s ten-minute appointment age, you know makes it really difficult but like as a young doctor I think there’s a lot of distrust when it comes to physician Recommendations it sucks because you know you spend decades training and learning and your heart is in this place where you want to like be of service to people and then You’re not trusted but you know to answer the question You shouldn’t just blindly trust anyone’s opinion your doctor or anyone. Ironically the doctors are the ones that- Well, I trust my physicians My daughter has epilepsy and in March she was also diagnosed with juvenile idiopathic arthritis I went to the rheumatologist and the rheumatologist said we’re gonna put her on methotrexate and I looked at her I’m like methotrexate That’s a chemotherapy Kimber therapeutic agent that you know kids with cancer again and she’s like, yes But we use it in a low dose and it doesn’t cause harmful side effects. You have to trust me. I said okay and I trusted her And I am so glad that I did before all this happened. She was a competitive gymnast and She used to walk up and down the stairs. Like she was 90 years old. She couldn’t hold a pencil in her hand now she’s back on the bars and back on the on the beam doing things which my wife and I Never thought that she would do again. So yes, do I trust my physicians? Yes. Do I question them? Yes, I will say look can we do this for her? Can we do this instead? And yes, you know I, I can appreciate what you guys have said as far as people hearing you and I think that’s the biggest problem in medicine is that Time is short clinicians aren’t listening and I think that as as a pediatrician You know one of the most important jobs That we have is to listen to parents and I think that if any pediatrician isn’t doing that, they’re not doing their job I don’t like it I don’t I want us to be able to talk I want us to be able to have Relevant and educated conversations and I think at the core of this conversation is What is at the core of humanity and being a parent? Which is that we all want to do right by our children and we want to lead happy healthy and productive lives Yeah, I have no doubts in my mind of how I’ve come to my decision making on the subject which has been Tedious and thorough to say the least I did not expect to go down this path in my life But I have people who won’t be friends with me who I’ve had death threats on social media I might not even be able to send my kids to school depending on how legislation changes because of the way I think it just it’s insane to me how hostile this has become and it’s not doing a service to Research and science moving forward and just the overall dialogues we have in our culture whatever the subject what I think is lacking in this debate or conversation is really Compassion from the pro vac side or pro mandate side. I’ll say the people who Refuse to acknowledge that vaccine reactions are happening or that the things that happened to my daughter were Connected because maybe it was just a coincidence and I just needed something to pin it on you are socially isolated You can be isolated by your family isolated by the medical community isolated by society as a whole because they assume you’re Unintelligent uneducated and irrational. I wish there was just more compassion that no We don’t want to make something difficult. We just want to be acknowledged My daughter was a victim and she’s being punished what I signed up for this it was a little bit of trepidation Coming into this because you do hear things in the media You know about the people who are anti vaccine and the way they respond to physicians and it is a little bit scary you know as Physicians we care about people there is compassion on on the medical community side We wouldn’t do this if we if we didn’t care but again, you know I do have compassion for the families that have gone through issues with you know, with vaccines and I have a great deal compassion for the families that had children die from preventable diseases There shouldn’t be any hostility. There should be discussion. I mean we can always question things That’s how we of all that’s how we get better. If we didn’t question anything we’d be still in the dark ages Hey guys, I’m Kendra I’m Erin and we’re from Jubilee media. Thank you so much for watching this episode of middle ground We try to encourage radical empathy in our work So we’re very appreciative that you took the time to watch one of our videos Make sure you let us know what you think in the comments below Also, make sure to subscribe follow us on Instagram and we’ll see you next time

100 thoughts on “Pro-Vaccine vs Anti-Vaccine: Should Your Kids Get Vaccinated?

  1. I’m pro vaccine but I don’t think getting a bad restroom from vaccines are extremely rare and I get that parents don’t wanna do it anymore since their child had several bad experience which is the only understandable point

  2. So about the woman who’s daughter was affected. In no way is anybody asking you to continue to vaccinate you’re child if the vaccines are hurting them. Like the doctor was saying herd immunity is there for this specific reason. To protect the people who aren’t able to be vaccinated.

  3. I don't care what anybody says, I am not getting any more vaccinations, last year in 2018, in September I had got in a reaction and it was very bad, I had a huge a memory loss after that and was very sickly, so after that no. It has only been within the last 2 months that my memory has gotten way better.

  4. Child: born with a non functioning kidney and there's a transplant ready
    Apes:BuT wHaT aBoUt ThE kIdNeY sToNeS

    Seriously though how much of a ligit neanderthal do you have to be to not believe in vaccines like the human race is just regressing

  5. An unvaccinated child is a danger to society, those unvaccinated kids should not be aloud in public or public schools they are endangering other children

  6. I'm totally pro-vaccine, but I empathise someway with the other side. In Brazil, vaccination is taken very seriously, which is fair considering that the biological threat would be really absurd otherwise. The anti-vaccines movement is kinda weak, even though, on the other hand, it is more bulshitful. Despite not having the best healthcare in the world, we have a great trend on vaccines, which I think is an example to the world, even though as I said, we kinda need them more than most of it. However, there is one problem here, the risks of reactions and ineffectiveness is not taken into account. Don't get me wrong, despite of these risks, it is definitely worth it to vaccinate, specially considering the population effect, not only the individual effect, which as an economist I think is important to account, however, the risks are just ignored. I know that vaccination public campaigns, for example, are not a great time to tell people that they are not 100% effective and safe, but they don't even tell you in the application time the cares you should take to make it work better, and if you ask for, they will just say that nothing wrong is going to happen. I once had a bad reaction- it is over and I have no sequels- but it was scary at the time. I didn't lose my trust on vaccines, because I already did not trust them 100%, but I was in favour of them and I am still, but it affected my trust on the Brazilian gov, health ministry, public healthcare, etc which are supposed to protect me and I should never fear them. The adverts now are trying to overcome the fear that some people have, than I think, if the people that have reactions, or know someone that had one, knew they could happen, like I did, they would be less scared of vaccinating again.

  7. I would rather have a child with autism then no child at all because I lost that child to a disease a vaccine couldn’t protected my child from

  8. Vaccines are risky. I've heard many stories on medicines causing more harm than anything else. Like the lady said parents know the children. Herbs is something doctors should consider and brought to the table.

  9. The saddest case is when a parent denied their newborn the vitamin k injection. Which is literally to prevent bleeding. And the baby actually died bcs of cerebral hemorrhage. Yeap. It’s not even a vaccine but they are pretty much so against any injections. And yet they call themselves parent? 😭💔

  10. Every parent should have the right to decide if they want to vaccinate their children or not. Vaccines are not safe

  11. just like to point out the first anti vaxx person got their beliefs from an idea, its never been scientifically proven, and I'm not trying to come for antivaxx people jus stating my beliefs

  12. Here we are in a 1st world country where we have braindead idiots opposing lifesavers whereas there are millions of people in 3rd world countries that would do anything to get their kids vaccinated.

    So sad

  13. Lady with the Perm hair, "My child has auto-immune disorder". You child is literally relying on herd health to keep from succumbing to a terrible death. No one is expecting your child to get vaccines if his or her immune system is compromised.

  14. Even though there are some side effects of vaccines, and no, anti vax kids don't just walk around with transmittable diseases. But anti vax kids can very easily pick up these diseases and transmit them to other kids. And that is the reason laws are most likely going to change in the near future, school, getting vaccines etc. In turn, vaccinated kids can get diseases, but have a much, much lower chance of transmitting a disease, paired with other vaxxed kids multiplies that. Watching these videos makes me want to scream WOULD YOUHAVE SEE YOUR KID HAVE THEIR LIMBS AMPUTATED OR GET THE FLU FOR A FEW DAYS!! Also, life isn't safe, walking outside every day has risk. Also, while you know your kid, doctors have spent years studying the human body and most likely know much more about your kids physical heath than a regular parent does.

  15. Question I will do anything to keep my child safe
    Everybody steps forward….

    ….soooo you will get a vaccine to keep them safe?

  16. The reason kids may not be allowed to attend school without vaccinations is the support for herd immunity, which we didn't have when we had plagues. I think these things should be mandated. It's a safety hazard to not be vaccinated. Those that are vaccinated, yes, can get sick, but it's less common that they are sick with something lethally contagious.

    The hostility from pro-vaccers, such as far as ending relationships over it is a safety measure, not necessarily anything personal. And this should be respected as a defense for their children backed by the medical community and what they think is best for their children. Looking at it as anything else, is feeding hostility into their reasoning. If you had the same beliefs, hopefully you would do the same for your child(ren).

    The risk/cost of how much good vaccines do statistically outweigh the side effects. No one can argue that there isn't at least a 51:49 risk/cost overall. The reality is 99.9999/0.0001, likely more. You can chalk up cases of immediately-appearing side effects to preexisting conditions that were dormant before, maybe triggerable from any incident or in time randomly, unsterilized needles, genetics or other lifestyle choices. Research on a home-level will not explain causation end effect, only paranoia. An expert needs to cover exact reasons for you, if possible. The body is unlikely to be exhausted from any one factor outside of bring stricken with an advanced illness/disease, of which vaccines' purpose is to defend against.

  17. Karen: I vacated my child now he has autism
    Also Karen: I smoked and drank wine when pregnant
    Doctor: I’m going to stop you right there

  18. yes that is exactly what we want from you, sacrifice your child for everyone else
    dont you got a little bit of altruism in you

  19. im sorry, you may know your child. But you don't know multiple years of specialised training based around the human body and how to heal/help it.

  20. “Vaccines are all made the same”

    Sure Karen… if they were all made the same why don’t we just make one super vaccine so that we don’t have to get a million of them… or maybe a super vaccine that cures stupidity and Karen syndrome

  21. Vaccines are good in the big scales, but we do have to really try to listen those as well who suffer from them,they might in small numbers, but they do exist,,,,and I understand that lady with " fringe " annoying, but when you see your own child suffer,,,you will do anything….

  22. Melissa annoys me so much like just because her daughter had a reaction to a vaccine doesn't mean everyone will so she can do whatever she thinks is right for her daughter but she shouldn't be trying to scare other parents who haven't yet got their children vaccinated saying that their child will have a bad reaction to the vaccine. She needs to realise that vaccines are actually very good and that whatever happened to her daughter was really rare

  23. Yes love your children but your willing to harm other people’s children because you didn’t want to give your kid the vaccine and if your child is allergic to the vaccine give them a substitute vaccine that can take out the same virus but has a different formula don’t send your kids to school that week if they are sick because I thinks it’s sick to think your kid is more entitled or more important than anyone else to think of them above anybody else because they are not you should love them above anyone else but still it is wrong to harm others and I think if you don’t want to vaccine your child that is up to you but last time I checked the deaths from the flu I’m 2017 where higher than normal

  24. That junior doctor seemed really excited to see the senior doctor in the end haha. Bet he had lots of questions.

  25. doctor: says something he knows is a fact because he specializes in this subject and has many years experience

    anti vaxxers: no you see you’re wrong

  26. I’m tired of seeing all these moms who probably —didn’t go to medical school— in this comment section still arguing that people shouldn’t get vaccinated

  27. Bottom line the benefits outweigh the risk. obviously if your child has an autoimmune deficiency don't vaccinate them It just means they have a higher risk of dying if they catch anything Sorry. But for most healthy born children they should definitely be vaccinated to stay healthy. Went vaccinators are just trying to say is that the reason that most of these major outbreaks have stopped is because of modern medicine and vaccines If we stopped vaccinating everybody a lot of these diseases will come back and wipe out large portions of humanity. We are trying to protect humanity as a whole not each individual child or person. Some antivaxxers have legitimate reasons that's fine. The frustration comes from the people who don't have a legitimate reason to not vaccinate their children They are intentionally putting their children at risk and other people. We can't control and fix everything but we can try to manage it as much as we can and that's all vaccines are trying to do as manage our weaknesses humans are definitely prone to dying to these diseases.

  28. I don't get it… Really.. Why we have to force people to do something they don't want ?? if all your friends and family are all vaccinated.. then good..
    Can we just let people learn by themselves ?? Experience is the best teacher there is, IF they fall ill cause of a silly Anti-Vax.. let them.. People have the right to live their life.. as long they don't hurt other people.. In this case they might.. BUT they will only infect other people who are also maybe Anti-Vax.. So once again.. Let them LEARN..

    "Sometime people can only learn AFTER they have fall down"

  29. Pro-vaxxer here.
    PEOPLE, don't be bullies! Seriously. Yes the doctors are right, yes the anti-vaxxers obviously don't understand the concept of probability and statistics, but there are RARE cases like Melissa's daughter and if she can't take vaccines, that's fine, leave them alone, don't bully them. As long as only those very rare cases don't end up getting vaccinated I think we all will be fine.
    What is important is that such rare cases don't create a global panic, where the number of people who refuse to vaccinate their children grows immensely.

  30. Marissa’s accent is cartoonish, do people really speak that way? By research does she mean google? I doubt she actually goes to a few Doctors or the actual library.

  31. I am a proud anti-vax mother of five beautiful children.
    Edit: Four beautiful children.
    Edit: Three beautiful children.
    Edit: Two beautiful children.
    Edit: One beautiful child.
    Edit: Well … I ain't a mom anymore…

  32. (anti-vaxxers don't attack me)
    i have a family member with epilepsy(which if you don't know, causes seizures) and they can some times have seizures ranging from six months apart, to 1 day apart(people with severe epilepsy can sometimes have multiple seizures in a day, which i know from a friend who used to have them).From personal experience, i know if nobody is around when someone has a seizure, it can be life threatening.But when they say things about not vaccinating because of MMR risks of seizures, i just think of all the people whose kids have epilepsy and what kind of message that's sending out to them and their children. You would rather take the risk of your child have MMR than your child possibly having a seizure. i'm not downplaying the risk of having a seizure,it's a serious thing, but think about the bigger picture. Again anti-vaxxers don't attack me.

  33. I wonder if that woman realized her daughter depends on herd immunity?

    Herd immunity is necessary for people like her daughter who can’t get the vaccine for whatever reason, which means she is actually harming her daughter by preaching anti-vax in a different way. No good doctor would demand someone who has a known vaccine allergy to get a vaccine, instead would instruct on how to protect the child from harmful illnesses like measles.

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